08/18/2015 MINUTESHOUSING AUTHORITY OF THE CITY OF PARIS
REGULAR MEETING
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS MEETING
100 GEORGE WRIGHT HOMES
MINUTES OF August 18, 2015
Present at the Meeting:
Gary Savage — Vice Chairman of the Board of Commissioners
Dewayne Dangerfield — Commissioner of the Board of Commissioners
Brenda Cherry — Commissioner of the Board of Commissioners
Cassandra Hearn — Commissioner of the Board of Commissioners
Rachel Braswell - Commissioner of the Board of Commissioners
Sally Ruthart — Executive Director
Benny Goforth — Maintenance Supervisor
Cathy Sims — Section 8 Caseworker
Veronica Butler — Public Housing Caseworker
Meeting Called to order at 12:35 pm on Tuesday, August 18, 2015 by Chairman of the
Board of Commissioners, Gary Savage.
Having all five Board Members present, a quorum, Mr. Savage thanked and welcomed
everyone to the meeting.
Minutes from the July 21, 2015 Minutes stood as read - with a Motion from Rachel
Braswell and Seconded by Cassandra Hearn - Passed 5 -0.
Director's Report was as follows:
Occupancy Report —10 vacancies — 3 offered and 7 in make ready status. Make ready's
have been put off due to Maintenance Staff focusing on the REAC Inspection readiness
that was done on August 10. Maintenance Staff is back on make ready's now while
repairing air conditioners in the process. PHA has had lots of calls for air conditioner
problems. One maintenance man has had 17 hours of overtime calls on air conditioners in
one week. Waiting lists — One bedroom — 43 applicants, Two bedroom — 13 applicants,
Three bedroom — 5 applicants, and Four bedroom — 0 applicants = Total 61 applicants.
There are 45 applicants on the Section 8 Waiting List. Per questions from Mr. Savage —
PHA still needs more 2 & 3 bedroom applicants and the turnover rate could be quicker if
the responses from the applicants were quicker and all would show up for briefings. Mrs.
Pridemore is calling applicants as they come up on the waiting lists for offers in an effort
to get them housed quicker. The Section 8 Waiting lists should last the PHA a couple
more months. PHA is trying to get to 293 Section 8 Tenants and are currently at 267 with
15 still looking.
Financial Report — Mrs. Ruthart reviewed checking accounts - Public Housing with
$738K and Section 8 with $403K as of July 30, 2015. Per our fee accountant, PHA
requested additional HUD held funds from HUD due to the fact that PHA has spent more
in HAP costs than the PHA had been funded. Process was unexpectedly simple and HUD
deposited and extra $25K for July & August in our Section 8 account.
REAC Inspection — August 10th, 2015. Last year PHA score was 75; this year score was
76. Maintenance staff worked extremely hard on grounds and units to correct all possible
problems. Inspector told Mrs. Ruthart that PHA's main problem was not the grounds or
the buildings that it was the tenants' housekeeping and not reporting damages that were
our main deductions. One unit got 0 points because of its housekeeping. The PHA is in
the process of eviction on this tenant due to PHA's repeated attempt to get this tenant to
keep her unit sanitary. Ms. Cherry asked if the PHA does monthly inspection and Mrs.
Ruthart explained that the PHA does annual inspections of all units and HUD comes in
once a year and does an inspection of 10% of the units (24). Mrs. Cherry asked how
HUD chooses the units to be inspected. Mrs. Ruthart explained that the inspector has a
computer program that chooses the units randomly through the HUD Systems program.
Ms. Cherry stated her concerns about things she has seen and receives complaints about
and Mrs. Ruthart explained that if they will call in to the PHA and report problems they
will be fixed. Mr. Savage asked if there is a report process that proves that they reported
it and it was not fixed. Mrs. Ruthart explained that she attended a meeting on the 17t' of
August called "Ask the Director ". This was a request of Kelly Crawford, Social Service
Coordinator. Only 10 tenants showed up at the meeting, but received a lot of information
from them. Ms. Cherry explained that she knows that in the past tenants have not
complained or reported things because they feared retaliation. She said she hoped that
things change and Mrs. Ruthart assured Ms. Cherry that the PHA goal is to change a lot
of things. Mr. Savage said he thought it would be good if the tenant and PHA had a
system of documentation of items reported to make sure they were fixed. Mrs. Ruthart
assured Mr. Savage and the Board of Commissioners that she was willing to do
everything in her power to change this and that she told all tenants at the "Ask the
Director" Meeting to please call her at Extension 26 if things like this happened. Copies
of the 3 EHS Findings were given to the Board and explained that these were fixed as
soon as they were found and reported to the REAC inspection as required. Ms. Hearn
stated that the smoke alarms being inoperable is a safety hazard and asked if it because of
tenants. Mrs. Ruthart explained that both were not the tenant's faults the smoke alarms
were inoperable due to faulty wiring or bad battery and the tenant not aware that they
were not working. Ms. Cherry discussed the inspections for Section 8 Tenants. She said
that she knew of a house that was inspected with no working fire detector and said that
the house ended up catching on fire due to a faulty wired ceiling fan. She also stated that
the Fire Marshall lied and said that the smoke detector was faulty. Mrs. Ruthart explained
that the inspector would not have passed a unit without a working smoke detector. She
said there was one but it was not hooked up. Mrs. Ruthart explained that the tenant
should not have signed the inspection if something was wrong. Ms. Cherry stated people
desperate for housing will sign anything to get into a house and that the PHA just needs
to make sure the inspections are done correctly. Mr. Savage asked if that happens does it
hold up the tenant from getting to move in. Mrs. Ruthart explained that in a case like that,
the inspector gives the landlord only 24 hours to fix safety & health issues.
Board of Commissioner's Training - Mary Ann Russ, Dallas HA ED, has offered to do
Training to all Board Members. The Board of Commissioners agreed on August 28, 2015
from 8 am to 2 pm. Mrs. Ruthart told the Board that she would get in touch with Ms.
Russ and try to get it set up.
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Resolution 2015 -003 Exterior Paint Contract for Jackson Court (25) units — ABC Home
Improvements - Motion to accept made by Dewayne Dangerfield
and seconded by Rachel Braswell which passed 5 -0.
Mr. Savage turned the floor over to Ms. Cherry to discuss her concerns of the promotions
Approved in the November 2014 Board Meeting:
Ms. Cherry:
This is nothing against you (to Mrs. Ruthart). I just think that the
Board should be following the Open Meetings Act. According to
the training video that I watched, we have to for people like
administrators and executive directors; let everyone know there is
an opening. And, also in the Open Meetings Handbook 2014 those
positions are of great public interest and there is no reason that I
know of that one would not announce an opening where the public
has an opportunity. Denny Head was hired as Executive Director
there were 8 applicants and that's how a government office should
be run. It wasn't like they were passing the job on. I don't
understand why it wouldn't be posted and that is the way a
government office is run. I don't think the board is following the
Open Meetings Act. The PHA has to have transparency and the
public has the right to know what's going on and there is no reason
not to. Because you end up having nepotism if you pass a job on to
your son or your friend or whatever if you don't allow the public to
fill out applications and you choose who is not qualified, not that
you're not qualified but I just don't understand why that was not
done because obviously it was done prior when Denny Head was
chosen. Am I the only one that saw that in the video?
Ms. Hearn:
I saw it.
Mr. Savage:
Exactly what was it that you saw?
Ms. Cherry:
You know when you get on the board you have to take that full
board training and its talking about any government that is subject
to the Open Meetings Act and the HA is. For those type positions
especially executive directors, administrators you have to
announce it and make it public that the job is available so that
people can apply if they are qualified and all. In this case it was
like just passed on and in my opinion we have a large amount of
Rutharts running the Housing Authority. No HA should become a
family business. You know, that is how I see it. The position
wasn't announced. People either apply or not and then you choose
the person like you would at any job.
Mr. Savage:
Any comments?
Ms. Hearn:
I'm just listening to what Ms. Cherry is saying.
Ms Cherry:
You can see on the video that that was what it said.
Mr. Savage:
I didn't see that. I probably missed it. I went back and we talked
and had you placed on the agenda and I was not sure what was
applicable and what was not. I researched some things in regards to
the Housing Authority and I looked at our by -laws and it's really
vague in the by laws. All it says is basically the Housing
Authority... The selection and compensation of such personnel
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(including the secretary) shall be determined by the Authority
subject to the laws of the State of Texas. And going back and
looking at some of the stuff that I saw which I did print but was
lost, it says that the secretary of the Housing Authority, when that
job becomes vacant you can open it up in the within the county or
region, depending if it's a small region, but it said larger city
/county then if you didn't find anyone within the county you could
open it up for people to apply. I have been through the same
process in the school system. We did open up within the school
system then they went to a broader range. Now, I don't know if
that's something that the state of Texas actually sanctions or not, I
was just researching. As far as the nepotism, I found an old paper
from the Attorney General of the State of Texas and he rendered a
ruling on nepotism which said that the commissioner's board could
be held liable for nepotism but the director could not. I guess that's
because I never hired anybody except do we do the hiring, approve
the hiring, or have to sign off on the hiring? Do we choose then if
we signed off on it then it's kind of like what you were saying
about the tenants? If we sign off on it then we are liable and I
know that in the school system, if the superintendent recommends
who they want then normally you go with the recommendation but
we have the right to say no at any time. I don't care if the
superintendent, principal, or whoever agrees to hire this particular
person, we have the right to say no as a board. This board is
different than a school system or a county or city council they
actually represent a people in a certain region. We don't. We are
just over this commission. The board, over this commission, we
don't represent certain people or a section of people like they do in
the city and different rules apply to this. And, another thing on this
board, there is a line that board members can not cross. I've seen
people on the board at Chisum ISD they would micro manage the
superintendent. They were there every day micro managing the
superintendent but it says it in black and white as far as a Housing
Authority board and Housing Authority director, we hire the
director and basically trust that the director makes the right
decisions and we are here not to micro manage. Like tenant
complaints, we can't come up as a normal citizen and complain or
talk to the board. That's really out of the scope of our job. Now
because of the board being the way that it is, we do talk about
these things. Really, those things are not suppose to go on in the
board meetings but because we are so informal we do. We can dig
deeper; we didn't have much time to dig.
Ms. Cherry: Let me say this, I disagree with the statement that we just have to
trust everything that the director does.
Mr. Savage I didn't mean trust everything that's not exactly what I was saying.
Business that goes on at the Housing Authority, the director runs
that. The board doesn't. That's all I was saying.
Ms. Cherry: I understand that; but, if the open meetings act didn't apply to us
we wouldn't need to train. You know I'm not just, I've talked to
people too. You have to have transparency, you have to announce
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them. I'm not going to just sit and rubberstamp the thing. I'm not
doing it. If I feel something is wrong then I'm going to talk about
it. Now if I'm wrong for doing that then I'll just have to get kicked
off the board. But there's, I do not believe that we are just suppose
to sit and trust, not that I don't trust you, but I don't believe that
that's what we are suppose to do.
Mr. Savage:
That's not what I meant.
Ms. Cherry:
You have to have oversight. You have to look at what's going on,
because then why even bother having the board.
Mr. Savage:
That was not what I was saying. You do have the right to come and
put something on the agenda. What I'm saying is there is a fine
line between micro management and not that you are doing that
now, we are just discussing the director's position and there is a
fine line between micro management and the one that we are
supposed to do. That's why I asked for the training, that's why I
asked for this to be put on here so we will know exactly what we
are supposed to do and that's why I want it so soon.
Ms. Cherry:
It's up to us to vote on the executive director, correct?
Mr. Savage:
Yes.
Ms Cherry:
Why in the world, how is that micro managing.
Mr. Savage:
I didn't say that was micro managing. No, that's not what I'm
saying.
Ms. Cherry:
Well, that's what it sounds like.
Mr. Savage:
I'm sorry I may have misspoken or said it in that way, but that's
not what I meant. We have to vote on the executive director.
Mr. Dangerfield:
And we had a full quorum before you come in and she come in.
We had a deal and everybody voted.
Ms. Cherry:
I understand that.
Ms. Cherry:
Problem is that it didn't go out broad. The thing about it is that that
type job has to be announced and it wasn't.
Mr. Savage:
It looks like, I don't know the complete answer on that, but that
none of us sitting here really knows because these bylaws are so
vague on that. Do you think we need to table this and come up
with, because I know what you're saying but what your saying
does that apply to the Housing Authority board? We don't' know.
What I'm saying, does it apply, I don't know. We need to get a
conclusive answer. I can't say that we hired her right but you can't
say that we hired her wrong. You can say it and I can say what I
say but where is it written either way. So I still think we are at a
deadlock or we are still at a position where we really don't know.
So really, we need to come back with some, if we need to consult a
lawyer then we can do that. But we need to come back with some
conclusive evidence one way or the other. That's what I think.
Somebody else might have a different opinion.
Mrs. Ruthart:
Everything I looked up is like the bylaws, its vague it just says that
the board has to select an executive director. It doesn't say. This is
what I found this morning, the roles of a PHA board of
commissioners and its executive director. The Roles of the PHA
Board and this is from HUD, Board of Commissioners are
responsible for PHA Operations including by laws, policies and
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procedures. Selecting qualified executive directors. Everything I
read says they elect or select an executive director. It doesn't say
the process of it. It's like you said it's vague. And can I address the
nepotism issue.
Mr. Savage:
Go ahead.
Mrs. Ruthart
LD was hired before I was executive director. I was a Gibson when
I was hired here 18 years ago. I have only been a Ruthart for 5
years. LD is not kin to me; he is my husband's cousin. According
to our Personnel Policy that is not nepotism. Our Personnel Policy
states "Nepotism" — Generally, two members of an immediate
family will not be appointed to regular positions in the same
Department. Except in extraordinary circumstances, no employees
may directly or indirectly supervise or be supervised by a member
of his/her immediate family. An immediate family member
includes an employee's spouse, child, parent, guardian, brother,
sister, father -in -law, mother -in -law, brother -in -law, sister -in -law,
or any relative living in the employee's home. And, LD does not
live with me. He is my husband's cousin and I was a Gibson when
I started here and 5 years ago I married LD's cousin. That's just
the nepotism that I found. I did not hire him. I am not kin to him.
I'm not kin to Cindy Ruthart. She was also married to my
husband's cousin, but she is no longer married to my husband's
cousin. I'm like Gary, I have looked everything up about going out
for posting, that was an option to board and I'm pretty sure he gave
ya'11 an option. If you don't like this one, we can go further.
Ms. Cherry:
I'm talking about not the Housing Authority by laws because
actually the state laws override that. That board training video is
not vague it's very clear. It says it flat out. It's not vague at all; I'm
not understanding.
Mrs. Ruthart:
What part of the video; because I'm like Gary I missed that part.
Ms. Cherry:
It is toward the middle of the video and I watched it twice. And
that is what it said. It said that positions that are great public
interest such as administrator or executive director you have to. It
didn't say you have to post it up on the board; it said like you have
to announce the meetings and stuff and have to be specific in what
you say. You can't just say, you have to say that you are voting on
a executive director. I mean, I don't understand why this board
wouldn't want other people to be made known that there is a
position open; because if you don't you only allow certain people
to apply for the job. What kind of mess is that? I don't understand
the idea because it opens the door for discrimination and whatever.
So I don't understand why any board would say we don't want to
let the public know even though this is a public entity what
happens to the people that live out here matters and so why would
you want to keep it a secret? Why?
Mr. Savage:
I don't believe the board was trying to keep it a secret.
Ms. Cherry:
Well it is a secret if it's not open. I don't know how it went on but
it was not open and nobody can get a chance at a job here if you
had it like that where only the people that are already here can
know about job openings. I don't understand that.
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Mr. Savage:
The thing is, like Dewayne said, it was voted on and it was
approved so the only other issue, the only way you can go back
and reverse something like that is to find something wrong. So if
we don't find anything wrong with the way it was done then we
can't go back and reverse anything. So that's going to be the issue
at hand. If there is something wrong, then I'm sure everybody here
will agree, and then we will go back and look at it. But if we don't
find anything substantial and somebody says this hiring was done
wrong then we need to go to the next step. But if we don't have
that then how can we even act on this.
Ms. Cherry:
I'm not saying act on it right now. What I'm saying is according to
that training video, it wasn't done right. So what the board decides
to do about it is the board.
Mr. Savage:
So what do you want done.
Ms. Cherry:
I certainly want in the future, job openings be announced to the
public.
Mr. Savage:
Any other should be determined subject to the laws of the State of
Texas. So you're saying we should go by the laws of the state of
Texas that pertains to this hiring of the Housing Authority or
wherever.
Ms. Cherry:
It was on the board training it was only regarding executive
directors and administration, administrative and all that, but in my
opinion any job should be made available to public you know.
Mr. Savage:
Are you saying going forward with this? Your saying going
forward?
Ms. Cherry:
Well I still want to know if that was done correctly or not.
Mr. Savage:
Would the board, it's only a discussion so there is no action needed
to be taken, but we can agree would ya'll agree to let me get with
Sally to go back and dig, or anybody else can dig if you find
anything, but to get with her and whoever and wherever or go to
the Attorney General's office touch base with them on the hiring
process and get something specific. I don't like broad stuff and we
can talk about it all day. I want to find something specific that
pertains to the hiring practices of the Housing Authority board.
Would ya'll agree to let us find some information on that and then
come back here in the September Meeting, and I don't know if it's
legal but maybe we could forward it to ya'll if we find out
something.
Ms. Hearn:
I agree to go over the training video again.
Mr. Savage:
I will go over it again too.
Ms. Hearn:
I understand what Ms. Cherry is saying that she wants it to be open
to the public so that everybody has a shot at it.
Mr. Dangerfield:
I agree as well. But, the board thought that she was better qualified
and running a whole lot of things already very well and she was
trying to work with people and I know that she could have just set
them out there on the street and she took the time out to work with
them. So by her being herself, we the board just felt like she was
qualified to be that person to take over because she was agreeable
with everybody else.
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Ms. Cherry:
I understand that you like her and all that but I'm talking about
doing things the way the law says it. Whether I love this person or
not it should be done the way the law says it should be done.
Mr. Savage:
That's fair. So we will get into that and I guarantee that we will
have something next month to bring back to the board or present to
the board. It will be as an action item next time. I guarantee we
will bring something back that is specific. Because I don't want
anyone thinking that there is no transparency when we were on the
prior board or we were just rubber stamping, as you said, because
that didn't happen.
Ms. Cherry:
There has been things, me for instance. I tried to be able to come
and speak before I was a board member. It shouldn't be a situation
where a regular citizen can't come and say something. Is there a
time where someone from the general public can come and say
something?
Mr. Savage:
I don't think so. I don't know if a tenant can come and ask to be on
the agenda or not, but I'm not sure. But I don't think anyone from
the general public can. You are exactly right about any other
board. If you are on a certain school board and representing a
certain district like Chisum, anybody in that district can come up
and be placed on that board. But someone from Paris cannot be
placed on the Chisum Board. If you are on the City Council of
Paris, somebody from Detroit cannot come and be placed on that
board unless they have a concern right there in that city. The
Secretary decides who is placed on those boards and I know you
have been to a lot of meetings and you know that, but I'm sure a
tenant can, we will have to look it up but I'm sure they can. I live
on York Street why would I come out here to be placed unless I
have some key interest.
Ms. Cherry:
I'm not talking about people from out of town I'm talking about
me.
Mr. Savage: But we don't live here.
Ms. Cherry: OK come on now. I have had a lot of people come to me with
complaints about the Housing Authority. Why would the Housing
Authority not want to hear about complaints? What reason would
that be? I was not allowed to be placed on the agenda, talk,
nothing. I don't agree with that. Why would the board want that?
Mr. Savage: I'll tell you why. We don't act on complaints. You might want to
get a copy of whatever that was that she had showing what our role
is. We don't act on complaints. That's the director and I'm sure
they have a process for that. We don't act on complaints. That's
why this board is different.
Ms. Cherry: So what you're saying if a tenant, see, in the past tenants have been
evicted if they file complaints. I know that for a fact. They have
been evicted. So sometimes they come to a person like me for help.
But I can't talk either. So, they can't talk, I can't talk, if so I don't
understand why could you have a situation like that.
Mr. Savage: Why could they not come to this office?
Ms. Cherry: What did I just say? Because they get evicted.
Mr. Savage:
So they have a legitimate complaint and they have a representative
like yourself and they get evicted and you mean there are no civil
repercussions behind that?
Ms. Cherry:
Let me give you an example. There's a person who lives over here,
and she knows who it is, and there was mold everywhere,
everywhere. He ask me to come and tell the Housing Authority
that the mold was there. I did and it was Denny Head and he said
ok. It was about a month had passed and nobody had came and so I
told him to go file a complaint with the Legal Aide. Which he did.
He got retaliated against. He got a letter accusing him of all kinds
of stuff. Ya know, threatening eviction. And I got on top with the
letter. It should not be that way. And that's how it has been in the
past. So, I mean if tenants can't complain and nobody else but the
Legal Aide can complain cause they got no choice but to accept
they complaint but Legal Aide can't take all problems or handle all
complaints and they should be able to come to the Housing
Authority and be treated with respect and be able to complain.
Mrs. Ruthart:
And I would like that.
Mr. Dangerfield:
On the same token with this open act meeting, come and ask the
director. The letter was posted almost a week ahead of time before
the meeting even came up for people to ask questions. This lady
sat there, she took down everything, if you had some kind of
complaint, and if you need something worked on she put it out
there. She said 12 people; I looked at 10 that showed up. Out of
every person out here everywhere but no one showed up. She
asked for them to come out if they had anything to say and put it
on the table. She has only been doing this a good two weeks but
she trying and you can see she trying. If people don't come out and
participate what can you do.
Ms. Cherry:
Well first she have to gain their trust because like she's been here
for years and things have gone on you know I know you weren't
the top person but they're not going to all...
Mr. Dangerfield: We are back to the same thing.
Ms. Cherry: Come on now. They are not going to automatically know that we
can trust her. You're going to have to gain their trust.
Mrs. Ruthart: Right, and I'm trying.
Mr. Savage: I'm going to have to stop this because it's branching off on from
the item — the discussion of concerns regarding the promotions —
and we are digressing from that. I think we all came to the
consensus on allowing us to find more information and come back
to the board with more information one way or the other. Because
like you said we need transparency and there is only one right way.
So it shouldn't be a problem. So I'm going to say that we just do
that and end this because it can keep going on and on. Are there
any more questions concerning this?
No further business or questions, a motion for adjournment from Dewayne Dangerfield
and seconded by Rachel Braswell. Motion passed 5 -0. The meeting was adjourned at
1:33 pm.
APPROVED THIS day of 32015
Sally Ruthart, Secretary
Gary Savage, Chairman
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